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Korupcijos pateisinimo ir sprendimų vengimo menas: „kalta kultūra”

Kai pateikiau idėją, jog valstybės tarnautojai turi būti tikrinami, ar jie atsparūs korupcijai, žinojau, kad dalis reakcijos bus toli gražu ne aplodismentai.

Žinojau, kad bus iškeliamas žmogaus teisių argumentas. Kartu esu tikras, kad žmogaus teisės čia nieko dėtos. Juk nesiūlau jokios atsakomybės už tai, kad esi neatsparus korupcijos pagundoms. Tiesiog,  jei žmogui keliami aukšti reikalavimai, tai turi būti ir kaip juos patikrinti, o jų neatitikus - konstatuoti ir imtis priemonių - pašalinti iš valstybės tarnybos.

Žinojau, kad bus sakoma, kad atsparumo korupcijai testas nėra pritaikytas draugiškiesiems tarnautojams, kurie mielaširdingai ir primygtinai siūlosi „dar asmeniškai padėti”, „kaip nors išspręsti galimai iškilusias problemas”, „padirbėti, kad neliktų jokių kliūčių”, etc. Kartu esu tikras, kad šiuos ribinius atvejus reikalui esant išspręs teismas, tačiau daugeliu atveju riba tarp paslaugumo ir kyšio prašymo yra aiški, kai susiduri su konkrečia situacija.

Tačiau vieno nesitikėjau. Kad netgi tarp kovotojų su korupcija bus taip populiari nuostata, jog „viena priemone nieko nepasieksi”, „svarbu pakeisti mūsų supuvusią kultūrą”, „svarbiausia švietimas”, „reikia investuoti į jaunąją kartą”, „didžiausios problemos ne čia” ir pan. Visos šios pastabos, be abejo, svarbu, tačiau noriu priminti keletą aspektų:

  • Už kovos su korupcija priemonių „kompleksiškumą” Lietuva tarptautinių ekspertų giriama jau bene dešimtmetį, tačiau rezultatų bent aš kol kas nematau;
  • Daug ką lemia kultūra, tačiau ar nesvarbu, kokie signalai pasiunčiami visuomenei? Kodėl lietuviai užsienyje kyšius siūlo mažiau nei Lietuvoje? Kodėl kai kuriose šalyse liberalizavus rinką ir reformavus viešąjį sektorių korupcijos iškart sumažėjo drastiškai?

Šiuo atveju esu įsitikinęs, kad bent jau valdžiai reikia ne apie kultūrą dejuoti, o imtis priemonių, kad žmogus reikalus galėtų tvarkyti remiantis prigimtinėmis normomis, kurių valstybės sukurta sistema netransformuoja į kyšininkavimo praktikas (kaip pavyzdžiui, sveikatos sistemoje, kur natūralus žmogaus noras atsilyginti gydytojui yra taip transformuojamas, kad oficialus atsilyginimas vykdomas per mokesčius, nieko bendra neturinčius su sveikata, o tiesioginis atsilyginimas yra nelegalus, nes tiesiog neįsipaišo į valstybės sukurtą sveikatos sistemą).

Svarbu, kad ir elementarios etinės normos būtų tiesiog užtikrinamos valstybės tarnyboje (dėl ko ir ėmiausi minėtos iniciatyvos);

  • Visos problemos yra svarbios, todėl jei jau imamas jautis už ragų spręsti vieną problemą, tai prieš postringaujant apie kitas problemas (kas, be abejo, labai smagu ir patogu) gal visgi reiktų apsispręsti, ką darome su šia…

Suma sumarum, ne kultūra kalta, kad Lietuvoje klesti kyšininkavimas, o atvirkščiai: tokią kultūrą didžia dalimi lemia sąlygos kyšininkavimui. Viena iš tų sąlygų - elementarus nesusitvarkymas su kyšininkauti linkusiais tarnautojais.

Apie kitas sąlygas (kai kurios dar svarbesnės) - kitą kartą.

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komentarai (292) | “Korupcijos pateisinimo ir sprendimų vengimo menas: „kalta kultūra””

  1.   Mindaugas Ž rašo:

    Stiprybės Remigijau, atsimink kad lėčiausiai ir sunkiausiai pasaulyje keičiasi ne technologijos, bet žmonių įsitikinimai.

  2.   Saulius rašo:

    Sėkmės, Remigijau :)

  3.   Tadas rašo:

    Mindaugai, idomiai skamba paties priminimas, kuri suprantu kaip uzuomina i tai, kad politikas (ar politika) turi uzsiimt kitu zmoniu isitikinimu keitimu. Ypac jei tas politikas save vadina radikaliu libertaru. Na, nebent prof. Radzvilu sekdami, radikalu libertatarizma laikytume totalitarine ideologija, siekancia perdaryt pasauli i toki, kur visi masto i viena takta ir ta pacia linija.

  4.   bang rašo:

    Sąlygos kyšininkavimui lemia. Ne vien imti, bet ir duoti. Šiek tiek turiu abejonių dėl valdininkų gundymų, bet jei užsienio praktika yra, tai jau geriau daryti, o ne amžinai abejoti. Galima tik pasidžiaugti tokiu iniciatyviu ministru. Nors nesuprantu, kaip su ieškiniu bus pateikiami rašytiniai įrodymai elektroniniu būdu. Bankrotų bylas nuo teismų nuimkit ir antstolių padauginkit.

  5.   gaga rašo:

    Net juokinga, kaip šis įrašas tiktų alkoholio prekybos ribojimo temai, tereikia tik pakeisti keletą žodžių :) klasikiniai alkoholinio liberalizmo šalininkų argumentai: „viena priemone nieko nepasieksi”, „svarbu pakeisti mūsų supuvusią kultūrą”, „svarbiausia švietimas”, „reikia investuoti į jaunąją kartą”, „didžiausios problemos ne čia” ir pan. Beje, žiūrint žinias, man visada kyla klausimas, kodėl ten tiek daug pranešimų apie konfiskuojamas kontrabandines cigaretes, ir beveik nieko apie nelegalų alkoholį?

  6.   gaga rašo:

    PS: o šiaip, už sumanymą tikrinti valdininkus aš visom penkiom už. Jei valdininko negalima testuoti dėl neva pažeidžiamų žmogaus teisių (įdomu kokių?), tuomet visi egzaminai yra neteisėti. Beje, užsienyje yra gana populiarus “slapto pirkėjo” tyrimo metodas. Tad jei kažkam nepatinka sąvoka “antikorupcinis testas”, galima jį vadinti “slapto pirkėjo” testu.

  7.   Saulius rašo:

    Be pasikeitusios sąmonės jokie testai neveiks. O sąmonę reikia keisti informuojant. O kai sklinda tiek neaiškios kilmės ir užsakyta vienpusiška informacija, progresas neįmanomas.

  8.   anarchistas rašo:

    Kodėl gi atsparumo korupcijai tikrintojų rato nepraplėtus?

    Valstybė galėtų tiesiog išspręsti nedarbo problemą, perkvalifikuodama dabartinius bedarbius į atsparumo korupcijai tikrintojus. Praveda nemokamus kursus darbo biržoje, suteikia valstybės remiamą/garantuojamą kreditą aparatūrai įsigyti, ir voila! - visi mes turime darbą, visi - slaptieji agentai.

  9.   Tadas rašo:

    Isijungdamas i chora, noreciau pasiulyt tikrinti ne tik valdininkus, bet ir ju tikrintojus, o veliau dar ir siuju tikrintojus. Butu gera antikrizine priemone - mazetu bedarbiu kiekis. Veliau galim butu pradet tikrint ir eilinius piliecius, pvz, pries suteikiant pasa, reguliariais intervalais po jo gavimo ir pan. Bet cia jau kai krize dar labiau isisiubuos ir reiks daugiau darbo vietu.

    Jei rimciau, tai manau, kad isties reik keist (visu pirma, individualia) kultura, samoniget. Ijungt sazine ir artimiausia aplinka. “Kalta kultura” man teisingas ivertinimas tik tada, jei suvokiam, kad ta kultura kuriam ir palaikom kiekvienas is musu asmeniskai.

  10.   Gediminas rašo:

    Niekaip negaliu suprast, kas išprovokavo Remigijų tokiai neapgalvotai ir neprasmingai iniciatyvai.
    Atsparumo korupcijai testai galėtų būti daromi nebent mokslinio tyrimo institutuose. Toks testavimas neišvengiamai taps pavojingu ginklu apsukrių manipuliatorių rankose. O kokią naudą duos? Juk jokių objektyvių kriterijų tokiam testui neįmanoma rasti. O vadovaujantis subjektyviais… pasekmės nesunkiai numanomos.
    Žmonija tėra atradusi vienintelį būdą kovai su korupcija - valdžios galių mažinimas. Visi kiti nepasiteisino. Remigijus yra protingas ir sąžiningas žmogus, tai žino, todėl ir negaliu suprast šios iniciatyvos prasmės. Gal iš nevilties, neveikiant antikorupciniams įstatymams, žlungant saulėlydžio komisijų darbui?
    Visai pagrįstai skamba klausimai: - O kas tikrins tikrintojus? Ir t.t., ir t.t.

  11.   bang rašo:

    Prasidėjo inkštimas apie kurį ministras ir kalba savo įraše. Kas tikrins, kas tikrins tikrintojus… Laikas pagaliau veikti. Nereikia prie kiekvieno valdininko poros tikrintojų. Kaip su kelių policininkais - keleta pagavo, pro teliką parodė - gas kas čia tvirtins, kad situacija nepasikeitė ? Gal kultūra pasikeitė ? Vien tik policininkų ?

  12.   LTiCP.blogspot.com rašo:

    Pritariu tiek Gaga, tiek Bang, tiek Anarchistui.

    “Tadas rašo: 2009-08-06 19:38 bet ir ju tikrintojus, o veliau dar ir siuju tikrintojus”
    ###### O kodėl ne? Bet tam turi būti kažkokia info, jog tikrintojas pažeidžia kažką. Kaip ir valdininkai bus kažkuo įtariami, kad būtų verta ‘gaišti’ laiką juos tikrinant.
    Kaip nustatyti verta ar ne? Manau geriausiai tiktų žaidimo forma. Tikrininantysis kažkuo rizkuotų, jei gaišina tikrinamojo laiką.
    O be to abipusiai filmavimai spręstų šią problemą iš esmės.

    Gediminas rašo:
    2009-08-06 22:21
    ” Toks testavimas neišvengiamai taps pavojingu ginklu apsukrių manipuliatorių rankose”
    ###### Bet juk tokie manipuliuotojai taip pat bus sugauti, jei tik sudarysim salygas tiems, su kuriais manipuliuojama, atlikti kontrapatikrinima.
    o tada kaip rašiau. Žaidimas. Kas ką.
    Jei išsiplėtos pasalos, ar tai sumažins korupciją?
    Jei atsiras kontra-patikrinimo galimybė, ar tai sumažins manipuliuotojų?

    ABiem atvejais taip, nes iškyla abipusė nežinoma rizika būt sugautiems. Štai tikrasis metodas prieš bet kokius nusikaltimus.

    Nusikaltimų stabdymas yra paslauga, kuri deja labai monopolizuota ir priklauso valstybei (totalaus socializmo apraiška palygint su kitais paslaugų sektoriais) Sėkmingas prisidėjimas stabdyti nusikaltimą turi būti atlyginamas iš išreikalautos baudos.

    Kas supranta angliškai Žiūr. mano bloge 28 mintis, kodėl turėtų būti mažinamas nusikaltimų kontrolės monopolis, įtraukiant privačią iniciatyvą.

    P.S. ziur. Lrt.lt laidu archyve geguzes men laidos ‘Gamtos Patruliai’ iniciatyva - 10000 Lt uz padejima isaiskinti nelegalius prisijungimus prie naftotiekio. Kas cia naujo? Kad siuloma ne tik uz praeitus, bet ir i prieki. Prisides prie Prevencijos?

  13.   vasia rašo:

    Visad maniau, kad korupcija prasideda nuo įstatymų netobulumo, nuo nesugebėjimo (ar sąmoningo nenoro) parašyti jį taip, kad būtų aišku be papildomo išaiškinimo. Tie išaiškinimai sudaro galimybės juos skirtingai traktuoti skirtingiems visuomenės sluoksniams. PVZ. kol už eismo taisyklės skirtingai traktuojamos policininkams, seimo nariams ir kitiems eismo dalyviams, tol ir nebus tvarkos. Policininkams už eismo pažeidimą sustabdžius žmogų turėtų būti uždrausta klausti kur jis dirba…

  14.   Saulius rašo:

    O kaip uždrausti, EP jei protokolo blanke yra palikta vieta įrašyti darbovietei ?

  15.   gaga rašo:

    Nesuprantu, kodė ča tiek sunerimusių? Jei neimi kyšių, nėra ko prakaituoti. Psichologai teigia, kad “nepatekę į spąstus” jaučiasi gerokai labiau pamaloninti, motyvuoti ir patenkinti savo sugebėjimais, nei išlaikę akivaizdų testą. Taip kad nauda dviguba. Šiaip nesuprantu, kodėl reikia saugoti “žmogaus teises” tų, kurie naudodamisi tarnybine padėtimi pažeidžia kitų žmonių žmogaus (piliečio) teisę gauti tam tikras paslaugas?

  16.   x-mas rašo:

    su antikorupciniu testu yra viena, bet deja labai didele problema:

    jeigu valdininkas “neatsispyre” pagundai ir “neislaike” testo reiskia jis de facto padare nusikaltama veika (arba reikalavo, arba paeme kysi) ir turetu buti baudziamas pagal atitinkamus BK straipsnius. Deja tai yra neimanoma, nes siuo atveju valdininkas buvo provokuojamas nusikalsti o kaip pazymejo LAT ir KT nusikalstamos veikos provokavimas yra draudziamas. Taigi nubausti pagal BK valdininko negalima ir jam bus siuloma “geruoju” iseiti is darbo. Protingas klerkas be abejo atsisakys, nes joks pazeidimas nebuvo konstatuotas (korupcinio nusikaltimo nebuvo, o kitos normos nepazeistos (na as atmetu tuos atvejus, kai tarnautojas “prie progos” pazeis kazkokias vidaus taisykles ar reglamentus). Todel ir gaunasi, kad kuriamas dar vienas beprasmiskas irankis, kuris praktikoje neduos jokios naudos, o dar nezinia kaip i ji paizures teismai, ypaz EZTT.

    su korupcija turetu kovoti atitinkamos tarnybos, o ne “slapti pirkejai”. a propos nieko cia bendro su “slaptais pirkejais” nera - slaptu pirkeju paskirtis yra rasti imoneje silpnasias grandis, nurodyti trukumus, bet ju veiksmai nera nusikalstamos veikos imitavimas (o kysio siulymas ar provokavimas yra nusikaltimas ir tokius testuotojus galima drasiai traukti baudziamojon atsakomyben).

  17.   x-mas rašo:

    to gaga: aisku, o kam nusikalteliams advokatai? gal panaikinkim konkurencija baudziamajame procese… tik vat kai prokurorai apkaltins tave, o policininkai su lazda gaus tavo nuosirdu prisipazinima, paziuresim kaip uzgedosi. lygiai taip pat ir su visokiausiais “testais”.

  18.   Aivaras rašo:

    Aivaras Vyšniauskas, Alytus.
    Gerb. Remigijau,
    Ar nesuprantate, kad pačią pavojingiausią m a f i j ą sukuria pati v a l d ž i a…
    “Omnia mea mecum porto”. M.T.Ciceronas (Aivaras). Visa, ką turiu, nešuosi su savimi, t. y. tikrasis žmogaus turtas - vidinės jo savybės. “Plus potest asinus negare, quam philosophus probare” - mano mėgstamiausias posakis (replika) teismuose. Asilas gali daugiau paneigti, negu filosofas įrodyti. Vienintelis būdas kuo daugiau laimėti iš ginčo - tai vengti ginčytis. “Apkaltinti galima ir nekaltą, bet demaskuoti - tik kaltą” - sakė senovės Romos politikas Apulėjus Lucijus Saturninas. Dar šis tas: Esu menininkas… “Menas būti išmintingam - tai žinoti, į ką nereikia kreipti dėmesio”… H. D. Toro (Aivaras). “Visų žiauriausia tironija yra ta, kuri žengia po teisėtumo priedanga ir su teisingumo vėliava” - sakė prancūzų filosofas, rašytojas ir teisininkas Šarlis Luji de Monteskje. “Prieštaravimų stiprėjimas visuomenėje tarp įvairių socialinių ir politinių sluoksnių verčia Lietuvos politinį - korumpuotą - kriminalinį - banditinį - mafijinį viešpataujantį klaną keisti savo viešpatavimo metodus. Dažnai šis klanas būgštaudamas, kad jo paties sukurtais demokratiniais institutais (televizija, radiju, spauda, internetu, visuomeninėmis ir politinėmis organizacijomis) gali pasinaudoti terorizuojamos, šmeižiamos, engiamos ir diskriminuojamos socialinės grupės, ima siaurinti demokratinius institutus. Todėl pati demokratija ne tik siaurinama, - o kartais iš viso jos atsisakoma ir įvedama atvirai teroristinė - korupcinė - kriminalinė - mafijinė diktatūra”, - rašau ir sakau aš. “Dente lupus, cornu taurus petit”, - sakė Horacijus, t. y. kiekvienas kovoja savaip. “Ex factis non ex dictis amici pensandi”, - draugus reikia vertinti pagal darbus, o ne pagal žodžius.
    Išvada: demokratija yra blogiausia valdžios forma, tik geresnės nėra…

  19.   Aivaras rašo:

    Gerb. Remigijau,
    dar 2009 m. gegužės 5 d. aš kreipiausi į Jus ir prašiau Jūsų:

    LR Teisingumo ministrui
    gerb. R. Šimašiui

    Esu priverstas kreiptis į Jūsų vadovaujamą ministeriją, nes jau keletą metų esu diskriminuojamas ir persekiojamas, t. y. šiurkščiai varžomos kai kurios mano Konstitucinės teisės, viena iš jų - tai teisė į pragyvenimo šaltinį, o kita - tai teisė kreiptis į teismą teisminės gynybos už mano nekonformistines ir demokratines pažiūras, vykdytą ir tebevykdomą pilietinę pareigą - mano atžvilgiu varoma nežaboto šmeižto ir korupcinės dezinformacijos skleidimo kampanija, esu terorizuojamas ir net represuojamas ypatingai pavojingų valstybinių, korupcinių ir kriminalinių nusikaltėlių gaujos - nusikalstamo susivienijimo – “KORUMPUOTYNO” [...]
    Alytaus regiono korumpuota - kriminalinė - banditinė gauja manęs neapkenčia ir už tai, kad esu nekonformistinių pažiūrų, objektyvus, teisingas, principingas, naudoju įvairias teisines galimybes Konstitucinei santvarkai įgyvendinti ir savo teisėms ginti, nepataikauju ir nenuolaidžiauju korumpuotam - kriminaliniam - agentūriniam elementui, nepriklausau nei propatrijotinėms, nei korumpuotoms - kriminalinėms politinėms jėgoms, o svarbiausia - išmanau Operatyvinę veiklą ir gaujai „KORUMPUOTYNUI“: „RŪKORYNUI“ ir „PLUMPROTYNUI“ esu surinkęs daug įkalčių, tačiau šios gaujos siautėjimui korupcinę priedangą garantuoja Generalinio prokuroro pavaduotojas GINTARAS JASAITIS. [...]
    Gauja žino, kad pagrindinis principas - tai gaujos baudžiamosios atsakomybės neišvengiamumo principas. Korumpuota gauja man už tai keršija ir keršija už tai, kad demaskavau, o jie buvo priversti palikti užimamas pareigas, buvusio Generalinio policijos komisaro V.GRIGARAVIČIAUS korupcinius agentus. Be to, jam turėtų būti pakeistas atleidimo iš Generalinio policijos komisaro pareigų teisinis pagrindas, nes jis, kaip tikras žvalgybininkas, apgaudinėjo tuometinį Vidaus reikalų ministrą R.Šukį. [...]
    Prašaui Jus informuoti, kiek tai priklauso Jūsų vadovaujamos ministerijos kompetencijai, apie mano galimybę kreiptis į teismą teisminės gynybos, o viena iš jų - tai prašymas administraciniam teismui dėl Alytaus miesto savivaldybės administracijos veiklos pripažinimo antikonstitucine, dėl Alytaus miesto savivaldybės administracijos išformavimo, dėl tiesioginio Vyriausybės valdymo įvedimo Alytaus miesto savivaldybėje ir dėl pirmalaikių rinkimų surengimo į Alytaus miesto Tarybą. LR Civilinio proceso kodeksas ir Administracinių bylų teisenos įstatymas nenumato asmens, pateikusio ieškinį ar skundą, visiško atleidimo nuo žyminio mokesčio sumokėjimo.

    Su pagarba A. Vyšniauskas

    Jokio atsakymo iš Jūsų iki 2009 m. rugpjūčio 7 d. aš negavau !!!

  20.   gaga rašo:

    tam kuris man rašė - o ponuli prisipažinimas nėra pakankamas įrodymas, jei nėra kitų įrodymų. Jei kyšio neėmei, iš kur įrodymas, kad ėmei? taigi mušk nemušęs. Ir nereikia pasakot pasakų, a la ėjo mažas žmogelis gatve, pagavo jį pikti policininkai, ir liepė prisipažinti užmušus patį prezidentą. Apie policiją galiu pasakyti tiek, kad vienu konkrečiu mane asmeniškai palietusiu atveju negalėjau patikėti savo akimis, kaip nuoširdžiai ir rimtai į reikalą pažiūrėjo eiliniai patruliai (ko nepasakyčiau apie dėdę, sėdėjusį prie kompo). Aš beje nesuprantu, kas blogo yra provokuoti nusikalstamą veiką - provokacijoms moralus valdininkas kaip ir turėtų nepasiduoti. Draudžiami turėtų būti poveikio metodai, susiję su grasinimsais, prievarta, etc.

  21.   Gediminas rašo:

    Net ir šio įrašo komentarai puikiai iliustruoja, kokia kontroversiška yra antikorupcinio testo iniciatyva. Bet broliai lietuviai įpratę minti ant grėblio. Prezidentė palaimino, pirmyn!
    Kirba įkyri mintis, kad bang ir yra vienas iš testo iniciatorių. Siūlo veikti nesižvalgant. Sakosi esąs teisininkas. Bet teisininkui, aiškiau nei kai kuriems kitiems, turėtų būti akivaizdu, kad ši iniciatyva neįgyvendinama.
    Suprantu ir kai kurių kitų komentatorių entuziastingą pritarimą - korupcija tikrai yra visus užknisusi bėda. Tačiau teisingai sakoma - gerais norais kelias į pragarą grįstas. Norit vietoj vienos bėdos turėt dvi - prašom.

    Aivarui,
    Sakot „demokratija yra blogiausia valdžios forma, tik geresnės nėra…“
    Ne visai taip yra. Yra geresnė forma - apribota demokratija. Tačiau politinis elitas, padedamas gausaus intelektualų būrio, vengia net menkiausių diskusijų šia tema.

  22.   Tadas rašo:

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  23.   Andrius rašo:

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  24.   Tadas rašo:

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  25.   Andrius rašo:

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    Dabar jau ir aš nebesuprantu, ką turėjai omenyje, juk “ribota” ir “apribota” gali reikšti visiškai skirtingus dalykus.

  26.   Tadas rašo:

    Andriau, kadangi matau, kad nesusikalbesim, siulau toki dalyka (kadais paties ismeginta): pasiklausinekit pas rimtesnius konstitucionalistus, kad jie jums apibreztu konstitucija. Pamatysit, kad retas (o gal net nei vienas, jei pasiseks su pasirinkimu) apibres ja “per popiergali”. Nes formalus popierius apie realia konstitucija sako nedaug. Kai kas tokio formalaus popieriaus apskritai neturi, o konstitucionalistine tradicija garseja.

    Saly, kur Konst. ar kt. teismui gali liept aiskint K vienaip ar kitaip konstitucijos mano tureta prasme nera.

    Del ribotu ir apribotu, kaip suprantu, irgi nesusikalbam. Tad palikim sia tema ateiciai.

  27.   Andrius rašo:

    Tadai, tikrai matau, kad neverta tęsti, nes, deja, pradėjai nusišnekinėti, belieka tik pradėti aiškinti, kad konstitucijas padaro marsiečiai, nematomi rožiniai vienaragiai ar kitokie dievai.

  28.   Simas rašo:

    Prabėgom perskaičiau komentarus ir neradua nė vieno normalaus pasiūlymo… Taigi. Kodėl gi negalima priimti tiesioginio valstybės tarnautojo atsakomybės įstatymo? Jei esate politikoje, tai turėtumėte žinoti, kad jį buvo bandoma priimti laaaabai daug kartų… Bet… Ir dabar pvz. Seimo kanceliarijos buhalterė staigiai gavo nedarbingumo lapelį… Juk net jūs žinote, kad tai buvo padaryta neteisėtai ir atitinkamos tarnybos tikrai galėjo tą savivalę sustabdyti jau seniai. Matyt niekas nenori sustabdyti. Jei net ministras nežino (o gal apsimeta?), kad ne bausmės dydžiai, o jos neišvengiamumas efektyviai reguliuoja bet kokį nusikalstamumą. Štai visai neblogas pavyzdys su KET pažeidimų sugriežtinimu. Kartu kilo policijos atlyginimai, mažėjo korupcija ir didėjo jų motyvacija. Sumažėjo avaringumas, buvo surenkama daugiau baudų… Bet dabar, garantuoju, jis ir vėl pradės kilti, bus surenkama mažiau baudų… Ar žinote kodėl? Žinote, bet viešai nepripažinste…

  29.   Urbokida rašo:

    Palaikau Simą. Jei pvz už statybas pagal neteisėtai išduotus dokumentus būtų baudžiamas tas, kuris juos išdavė, o ne statytojas, labai stipriai pasikeistų situaciją. Jei bijo imti, nebus, kam duoti. Jei nėra paklausos, tai pasiūlo natūraliai išnyksta.
    Baudų reikia adekvačių. Dabar už alkoholio pardavimą po 22val bauda - 75Lt pardavėjui. Antras kartas -1000/1500Lt įmonei. Ar čia šaipomasi, ar kaip… nesuprantu?

  30.   Gediminas rašo:

    Panašu, kad painiojama apribota demokratija su ribota. Vadinasi, dar reiktų ir įžanginės diskusijos. O daugumoje komentarų aptarinėjamos tik antraeilės problemos.

  31.   Pipedija rašo:

    Taigi mes čia ką norim pasakyt. Naivios mintys apie doros patikrinimą - aišku idealistiškos ir gražios. Ale betgi viską išspręstų paprastas dalykas - skaidrus organizavimas. Tada nei kyšininkai negalėtų nieko daryt.

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  32.   Gediminas rašo:

    Skaidrumo tematika labai mėgstama, bet tai nėra pagrindinė problema. Korupcijai klestėti sąlygas sudaro plačiai išsišakojusios valdžios galimybės kištis į ūkio subjektų santykius, smulkmeniškas jų reguliavimas. To reguliavimo biurokratijos ir jai tarnaujančių kairiųjų intelektualų pastangomis siekiama vis daugiau. Savaime suprantama, platieji visuomenės sluoksniai palaiko tokias pastangas, neįtardami nieko blogo. Ydingas ratas užsidaro!
    Skaidrumas, antikorupciniai testai ir reguliavimas niekaip negali padėti, neatlikus pagrindinio darbo - tinkamai neapribojus valdžios galių. Tą galima padaryti nelaukiant nei tinkamos kultūros, nei aukštesnio ekonominio išsivystymo nei kitų ypatingų sąlygų. Lietuvoje sunku to tikėtis, nesant supratimo ir valios.

  33.   jule rašo:

    kokia korupcija. Ne nuo to pradedame, reikia pirmiausia sutvarkyti imoniu vadovu ir darbuotoju atlyginimus. Stai “Jusu” imoneje VI Registru centre darbuotojas “as” gaunu 1200 Lt. Darbas be galo atsakingas, reikalaujantis demesio dideles atsakomybes, ziniu , astuonios valandos prie kompiuterio, o mano filialo direktoriaus atlyginimas 8000 Lt., o imones vadovo atlyginimas - 27000Lt. Ikainiai uz paslaugas vaikiski, viskas brangsta, - pas mus pinga, darbas reikalauja didziules atsakomybes - bet jis vertinamas 6Lt. kas tai? zaidimai su darbuotojais? kai prasome kelti atlyginimus, nera is ko juk esame pelno siekianti imone, tai kaip juos uzdirbti tuos pinigus su tokiais ikainiais? Pnas ministre gelbekit registru centro eilinius, labai prasome, neisgyvename padekite

  34.   Pipedija rašo:

    Smulkmeniškas reguliavimas bei neribotos valdžios galios - būtent tai ir yra neskaidrumo garantija. Dabar gi - tolesniam biurokratų ir nomenklatūrininkų galios stiprinimui būtent ir pasitelkiama gebelsiška propaganda, esą skaidrumą tik sudėtingesnis reguliavimas ir padidintų.

    Sistema turėtų būti tokia, kad eilinis pilietis ją galėtų suprasti, patikrinti ir atsekti paslėptus galus. Būtent tai ir yra skaidrumas.

  35.   Dainius Radzevičius rašo:

    Nėra ko stebėtis net ir ministrui, kad taip kritikuoja bet kokius pokyčius visos valdžios institucijos. Daug kalbama air apie žiniakslaidos korupcija, nors per visą nepriklausomybės laikotarpį nebuvo nė vienos bylos. Todėl kai kažkada pasiūliau STT, seimui ir kiotms valdžios kontoroms vietoje plepalų apie korupciją žiniakslaidoje žurnalistus bausti už kyšius taip pat kaip ir bet kurį kitą pareigūną, gavosi taip, kad niekas nenorėjo nieko keisti. Geriau tik plepalai…

    O kalbos apie tai, kad viena priemone nieko nepakeisi, yra nenumušamas argumentas. Iš tiesų, viena priemone gal ir ne. Bet jei net po vieną nieko nedarysi, tada jau pelkė garantuota. Todėl nereikai kreipti dėmesį į kriitkus, o reikai dirbti. Sėkmės.

  36.   Jonas Udris rašo:

    Seniai skaitau apie šią inicviatyvą, ir viduje vis dar nežinau, ar pritariu jai, ar ne… Kol kas tai tik idėja problemai spręsti, tačiau dar nežinau, kaip ją vertinti jau komentaruose minėtų aspektų kontekste. Būdamas liberalios pasaulėžiūros ir laisvos sielos žmogus, (bent kol kas) manau, kad tai būdas “švelniai” kovoti su (galimomis) pasekmėmis, o ne su reiškinio priežastimis. Be to, pareigūnų “testavimą” galima vertinti tarsi vakciną korumpuotam pareigūnui, t.y. pozityviai “ištestuotas” jis TIK praras darbą, bet IŠVENGS realios atsakomybės. Bet, kaip jau sakiau, sunku vertinti šią “idėją-monetą”, nepavarčius iš visų pusių.
    Gal reikėtų pakalbėti apie korupcijos priežastis iš esmės. Su kyšininkais - profesionalais kovoti tikrai bus sunku, jų buvo ir bus visais laikais. Tačiau su “proginiais”, smulkiaisiais kyšininkais, kurie sudaro liūto dalį šioje sistemoje, bent iš dalies galima kovoti:
    1) atsisakyti valstybei nebūdingų kontrolės ir priežiūros funkcijų;
    2) apriboti valdininkui sprendimų priėmimo diskreciją viešumu.
    Pamėginkite be eilės apsipirkti “maksimoje” :)… kasininkei duosite kyšį, ar priešais jus stovintiems eilėje? Kodėl privatus sektorius su klientų aptarnavimo (ir kitų klausimų sprendimo) tvarka susitvarko, o viešasis - ne? O jeigu norite gauti kambarį perpildytame 5* viešbutyje? Kažin, kaip pasiseks…
    Pirmiausia, reikėtų, mano galva, kai kuriose sferose korupciją “sankcionuoti” per diferencijuotas rinkliavas: reikia greičiau statybos leidimo ar licencijos: prašom, bet pinigai (į savivaldybės kasą) - pirmyn! O iš surinktų papildomų rinkliavų papildomai premijuoti aptarnavimo skyriaus specialistus…
    O visų antra - viešumas priimant sprendimus. Kur įmanoma, atsisakyti vienasmenio sprendimų priėmimo principo, o antra - kiek įmanoma užtikrini viešumą ne tik priimant sprendimus, bet ir klausimų svarstymo eigoje, naudojant IT technologijas: tam tikrais atvejais galbūt nuasmeninti nagrinėjamus klausimus, kitais atvejais užtikrinti, kad klausimo sprendimo eiga matytųsi internete ir pan. Bandom.

  37.   vaidas rašo:

    į šį pasiūlymą atsakymas, mano supratimu, vienas - skaitykite EŽTT praktiką. Ar atsakomybė atleisti iš darbo nėra atsakomybė?

  38.   Jonas Udris to Vaidas rašo:

    aš kalbu apie atsakomybės formą, o ne apie patį faktą…

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