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Lytiniai santykiai - blogis?

Be mano galva gerokai svarbesnių klausimų šiandien pasitarime Vyriausybė pasvarstė ir patį garsiausią pastarųjų savaičių įstatymą - Nepilnamečių apsaugos nuo neigiamos informacijos. Premjeras pagrįstai susirūpino kai kurių priimto įstatymo nuostatų neadekvatumu. Pasiūlė sprendimą: drausti ne tik homoseksualių ir biseksualių santykių agitavimą, tačiau bet kokių.

Turiu pasakyti, kad priešingai nei teigiama, šis pasiūlymas susilaukė toli gražu ne visų palaikymo. Visi liberalai ministrai buvo prieš. Tačiau įdomiausia - kaip pagal tokią formuluotę teks vykdyti taip gražiai konservatyvią šeimos santykių propagavimo politiką?..

Pavyzdžiui, vaikas sako: „seksas yra bjauru”. Į tai koks nesusipratęs pedagogas, psichologas ar šiaip sveiko proto žmogus atsako: „ne, seksas yra gerai ir natūralu, iš to galiausiai gimsta vaikai, tik svarbu, kad tai, kaip ir vaikų auginimas - šeimą sukūrusių suaugusiųjų reiklas”.

Ar tai ne agitavimas už lytinius santykius?..

Mano įsitikinimų konservatyvieji kolegos (aš pats save, beje, laikau labai konservatyviu) turėtų neužmiršti, kad daug dalykų nėra savaime blogi ar geri, o priklauso nuo laiko, vietos, žmogaus intencijos ir kitų aplinkybių.

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komentarai (1,000) | “Lytiniai santykiai - blogis?”

  1.   real rašo:

    Pritariu pilnai.

  2.   aldrinas rašo:

    O kas tai yra “lytinių santykių agitavimas”? Ar kas nors apibrėžė, ką laikysime tokia agitacija? Juk tame įstatyme yra punktas apie erotikos ir porno draudimą, ar jo negana….

  3.   Ysidor rašo:

    Siaip jau agitavimas = skatinimas. Mokytojo paaiskinimai tai nera skatinimas, vadinasi nera ir agitavimas.

  4.   Tadas rašo:

    O prie ko cia konservatoriai? Ju nebera net nei vienos partiju pavadinime, nekalbu apie realybe.

    Kalbekim apie krikdemus (o ju, bent jau “popieriniu”, pas mus galybes visose partijose). Ir cia as tegaliu pacituot klasika:

    “I’m a Catholic. We’re taught that sex is a dirty, vile, disgusting, act that you save for the one you truly love.

    - Paul Begala”

    Ka Lietuvoj bereiskia “konservatorius” ir dar “labai”, jei jau ponas Simasius save vadina “labai konservatyviu”, yra atskiro ir, speju, pakankamai nuobodaus, pokalbio tema.

  5.   egle rašo:

    O tai ministrui ir premjerui nekliuna (ir neuztenka) jau esancios istatymo normos, draudziancios informacija “kai skatinamas lytinis geismas, siūloma lytiškai santykiauti, rodomas lytinis aktas, jo imitacija ar kitoks seksualinis pasitenkinimas”? Ka duos dar vienas keistas sakinys - daugiau “lygybes”, ar daugiau laisves ji interpretuoti taip, kad nukentetu tik ta mazumu grupe, kuriai “taip ir reikia”.

    O siaip tai visi tie lytiskumai uztryne visiskai kita esmine sio istatymo problema: to istatymo tiek sena, tiek nauja redakcija neveikia, nes tiek pagal sena, tiek pagal nauja buvo draudziama ir lytinius skatinti, ir nesvankumai, ir smurtas, ir t.t. Taciau kokias norejo lavonu, neperdaug apsirengusiu neypatingai subtiliose pozose heteroseksualu nuotraukas Lietuvos rytas deti, tokias ir dejo, reklamose ir animaciniuose filmukuose kiek buvo smurto ir erotikos, tiek dar padaugejo. Teisines technikos poziuriu istatyma isvis i siuksliu deze reiketu ismest ir rasyt is naujo, nes jo neimanoma igyvendint neturint dvieju skirtingu nuomone del kiekvieno sakinio. Ir jeigu istatymas neveikia ir neveiks (nes neisjungs gi dievo nusvitimo laideliu ar neuzdraus religijos pamoku vaikams, kuriomis vaikams demonstruojami patys paciausi paranormalus reiskiniai), kam tokia istatymine simuliacija reikalinga?

    Is kitos puses, ko cia dauguma purkstauja - issirinko katalikus i valdzia, se tau ir Veronikos raudos “in action”. O ir pagal paziuras i seimos santykius musu liberalai yra tikrieji konservatyvus katalikai - ar nors vienas liberalas ministras isreiske parama lygioms teisems kad ir homoseksualams? Ne, vietoj to kazka pamurmejo apie suvarzyta laisve reiksti isitikinimus, bet kas konkreciai ten jiems kliuva, taip ir neaisku. Toks jausmas, kad kliuva tai, kad baznycia su visais stebuklais ir simpsonai paskelbiami netinkamais vaiku naudojimui. O sio blogo seimininko siandienos irasas – tikra atgaiva nukataliskejusiai konservu partijai. O istatymas gyvens tipiska lietuvio kataliko dvigubu standartu gyvenima. Siame kontekste netekejusios prezidentes isrinkimas skamba kaip paranormalus reiskinys: ) O juk teoriskai net prezidentes portretas skatins mergaites nuo mazu dienu atsideti karjerai ir taip paminti seimos vertybes: )

    Idomiausia, kas toliau? Koks kitas kompleksuotu valstieciu puolimo objektas?

  6.   tuscias rašo:

    man atrodo per tą “apsaugą” lietuvoje neliks žmonių. Tikrai nepasakosiu kodėl dauguma sprendimų yra būlšitizmas, nes esu girtas ir tingiu, tačiau taip yra.

  7.   Dainius Radzevičius rašo:

    Sutinku su iškelta problema. Ir gari, kad ministrai kelia ją taip pat. Viso įstatymo didžioji bėda, kad jis orientuotas tik į draudimus ir ribojimus. O štai apie tų pačių šeimos santykių propagavimą nikeo nenukreipta. Jokios specialiso prograos, jokių rekomendacijų, jokio finansavimo specialiems projektams - žiniakslaidoje filmams, mokyklose kitoms priemonėms. Aš pats irgi manau, kad lytinių antykių propagavimas pernelyg anksti - negerai. Bet čia reikia labai aiškiai atskriti, kad yra meilė ir yra lytiniai santykiai. Todėl svarbiausia, kad vaikams nebūtų supainiojami šie du dalykai ir nebūtų pradėta nuo kalbėjimo apie lytinius santykius kol dar nebuvo susiformavęs požiūris apie šeimą.

    Bet kuriuo džiaugiuosi už ministro parodytą sveiką nuovoką.

  8.   Ogis@Co rašo:

    Mano aplinkoj dauguma aukstaji moksla baigusiu zmoniu. Kai uzeina kalba apie sita istatyma, tai visu reakcija vienoda - plati ironiska sypsena su nelabai svankiu posakiu apie “durnius” pavarde is G raides ir bezdzioniu cirka :)
    Ir, beje, nuostaba del tokiu zmoniu, kaip Simasius vieso nebekalbejimo - matyt, kai gerai moka, nebesinori buti liberalu :D

  9.   sizifas rašo:

    Elementarus juridinės technikos reikalavimas - neturi būti priimama teisės norma, kurios tikslai yra neįgyvendinami. Elgesio taisyklė turi būti taip suformuluota, kad jos pakaktų pasiekti reikiamų tikslų, o priešingu atveju tokia norma neatneša absoliučiai jokios naudos, o tik diskredituoja teisės autoritetą. Na ir grįžkime prie reikalo - nepilnamečių apsaugos nuo neigiamos informacijos įstatymas. Po galais, šiomis dienomis jaunimo dėmesys yra keliskart daugiau nukreiptas į internetinę erdvę nei į televiziją ar spaudą. Dėl to nenusakomai naivu tikėtis, kad uždraudus tam tikro pobūdžio informaciją lietuviškoje žiniasklaidoje, ta informacija jaunimui taps neprieinama. O visų interneto platybių čia jokie grandai nesuvaldytų ir nesureguliuotų. Todėl, jei būtų mano valia, tai aš beveik visą tą įstatymą panaikinčiau ir vietoj jo tų pačių tikslų bandyčiau siekti teigiamomis skatinimo priemonėmis - laisvalaikio programomis, jaunimo užimtumu, mokykliniu ugdymu ir didžiausia begale kitų priemonių.

  10.   Dainius Radzevičius rašo:

    Sizifai - respect ;-)

  11.   Rassas rašo:

    Išvada straipsnio pabaigoje yra teisinga, bet galėtų būti tikslesnė. Gamtoje nėra nei gero, nei blogo. Vienam saldainis yra skanus, kitam - ne. Vienas be rūkimo gyvent negali - kitas dūmo kvapo neperneša. Vienas sexa laiko bjauriu dalyku, kitam tai laimės ir sveikatos šaltinis, neretai karjeros darymo, stumimosi pirmyn per gyvenimą priemonė - koks skirtumas kokiomis kuno dalimis žmogus save gyvenime realizuoja - ar auksinėmis rankomis, ar saliamoniška galva, ar sportininko kojomis ir raumenimis, ar… Viskas priklauso nuo asmens požiūrio ir kokie jo pamatiniai moraliniai pagrindai - moralinės nuostatos, kurios, deja, pas daugelį žmonių (ne tik Lietuvoje) yra siaubingai iškreiptos - antraip žmonės nesiskirtų, vyrų ir moterų krizių centrai būtų nereikalingi (paradoksas - jų lankytojai daugiausia yra iš šeimų), vaikai nebūtų prievartaujami, vienas kito arba saves nežudytų. Juk pirmaujame pasaulyje… Svarbiausios pamatinės žmogaus energijos - sexo energijos ignoravimas, žmonių nemokinimas ją suvaldyti ir nukreipti reikiama linkme - štai kur esmių esmė. Lytiniai santykiai yra bendųjų žmogiškųjų santykiu bene pati didžiausia dalis, todėl būtent čia reikia ieškoti atsakymo į straipsnelyje iškeltą klausimą. Suvaldyti sexo energiją ir nukreiti ją pageidaujama linkme žmogų pradėti mokyti reikia nuo mažens - darželio, 1 klasės ir mokyti visą gyvenimą atitinkamai. Juk jei nusikaltėlis, išprievartavęs moterį, po to ją nužudo ir dar išmėsinėja - atsakymo kodėl taip elgiamasi reikia ieškoti jo vaikystėje ir moralinėse nuostatose, kurių pagrindu buvo jis pats auginamas, augo jo tėvai, seneliai… Remiantis vien tik moralinėmis nuostatomis, kurios ne tik yra abejotinos, bet ir savižudiškos - dėl to ir yra sudėtinga šiandien susigaudyti dėl lytinių santykių - kokie jie - ar “geri” ar “blogi” ir kokios valstybinės politikos jų atžvilgiu laikytis…. Mano manymu - iš principo - jokios. Arba analogiškai tokios, kaip pvz. žmogaus maitinimosi politika, ar jo žygio ten, kur karaliai pėsti vaikšto politika… Išskyrus medicininį aspektą - ar to reikia? Aišku, kiekvienas reiškinys ar procesas turi savu + ir -, juos galima sureikšmint arba nekreipt dėmesio - bet kam ieškoti problemų ten, kur jų nėra? Kam valstybiškai stengtis reguliuoti sritį, kur ir be reguliavimo milijonus metų evoliucija sutvarkė taip, kaip reikia ir kokie nors vieno ar kito įstatymo punktai čia nieko nepakeis. Nebent, nusižiūrėję į kiniečius, reguliuodami norėtume padidinti gyventojų skaičių ar panašiai. Gerbiamieji - tai joks teisinis dalykas, baikit sapnuot. Teisė, kaip tokia, radosi neperseniausiai - prieš keletą tukstantėlių metų, o žmonija, civilizacija nuo pat pradžių iš esmės gyvena pagal tam tikrus teisnius principus, nes seniai žmogus žmogų būtų išnaikinęs ir paprasčiausiai mūsų nebūtų. Neužsižaiskim proto žaisimais, o žiūrėkite į esmę - tuomet viskas bus aišku kas kaip ir viskas pavyks. Reguliuoti reikia moters ir blondinių niekinimą (tai juk sexo energijos vienas iš neigiamesnių pasireiškimų), žiauriausias scenas per televiziją, žudynes, prievartą, ir pan (specialistai išaiškintų, kad tai netinkama kryptim realizavusis sexo energija). Tačiau kodėl to nesiekiama - matyt dabartinei krikščioniškai moralei tai neprieštarauja - todėl čia kita tema ir ilga diskusija. Lytiniai santykiai - tik technika, bet ne veiksnys

  12.   Tutobene rašo:

    Tokia griežta apsauga nemanau kad yra demokratinė “norma” šiame “laisvame” pasaulyje. Aš esu įsitikinus kad būtent dėl visokių draudimų žmonės vis labiau ir labiau linkę tuos draudimus išbandyt, perlipti… vis tai išsikreipia natūraliai. Taigi reikia natūraliai ir sugrįžti: anaiptoj ne įstatymais ir ne deklaracijom…
    Lytinių santykių samprata yra psichologinis procesas, progresas. Svarbiausia, kad jis prasidėtų šeimoje. Svarbiausia, kad vaizdiniai būtų paaiškinami. Net jei ir uždrausim viena, o kita bus leistina. Kas paaiškins kodėl ? Nes taip sako įstatymas?
    Tai ne atsakymas vaikui….

  13.   20023003x79 rašo:

    Nepasakius a, nereikia sakyt ir b. O jeigu vaikas sakys “p***rai yra bjauru?”, ką teks jam atsakyti? Aha, bet rinkėjams geriau nė neužsiminti, kad homoseksualumas ne liga, geriau tik užsiminti, kad esate prieš draudimus kalbėti apie seksą :) Visas tas įstatymas - nesąmonių rinkinys. Sėskite, du.

  14.   Andrius rašo:

    Taip ir atsiranada žmonės, kurie ir 40 sulaukę nežino iš kur vaikai randasi :|

  15.   Senukas rašo:

    Taip, lytiniai santykiai yra blogis, kada jie yra prievartiniai, kada pasinaudojama partnerio bejėgiškumu ar priklausomybe, kada santykiaujantys psichologiškai tam nepasiruošę. Ar Jūs, ponas Šimašiau, to nežinojote? Puiku, imkim, kaip siūlo Rassas, mokyti darželinukus valdyti “seksualinę energiją” arba naikinkim visus blogį ribojančius įstatymus (juk jo neišnaikinsi, ir tai diskrediduos teisės autoritetą).
    Iki ko nusišnekam, garbūs ponai, žaidžiantys savo politinius žaidimėlius. Džiaugiausi, kai į svarbius postus atėjo jauni, gabūs, ambicingi žmonės. Deja, varinės triūbos buvo kietesnės už jų momenėlį…

  16.   Rassas rašo:

    Keletas minčių dėl citatos „…kaip pagal tokią formuluotę teks vykdyti taip gražiai konservatyvią šeimos santykių propagavimo politiką?“.

    Kaip esu užsiminęs ankstesniame savo komentare, daugiausia nuskriaustų žmonių, kurie lankosi vyrų ir moterų krizių centruose, ateina iš šeimų. Paradoksas, ane? Daugiausia luošinamų ir prievartaujamų vaikų - taip pat šeimose… Paklauskit gerb. Šalaševičiūtės statistinių duomenų. Tai dar vienas paradoksas. Statištiškai išsituokusių šeimų daugiau nei susituokusių - trečias paradoksas. O kaip su narkotikais, žūtimis ir savižudybėmis?… - šios piktžolės taip pat geriausiai auga šeimoje. Pavartykit laikraščius - šeimos atstovai verslininkai, policininkai, operos solistai nusišauna, moterys dažniausiai atsiduria kalėjimuose arba durnynuose, vaikai bėga nuo tėvų ar paprasčiausiai juos nužudo, o narkomanas ar nusikaltėlis, pasirodo, yra gerbiamų ir žinomų tėvų, net Seimo narių vaikas, t.y. taip pat išaugintas šeimoje… Jaunesni žmonės, taip pat įžymus žmonės, pvz. rašytojas S.Parulskis, drąsiai sako, kad jei miela su žmogum gyventi, antspaudas pase nieko nereiškia, nieko neduoda ir jis to net nesiekia - paprasčiausiai gyvena normalų žmogaus gyvenimą kartu su kitu žmogumi. Ar pastebite - su šeima gaunasi vieni paradoksai. O mes dedamės šventesniu už Romos Popiežių ir stengiamės propaguoti… Atsikvošėkim - pats laikas. Šeima, kaip didžiausia šių laikų vertybė yra reklamuojama ir piarinama, nors iš tiesų statistika ir realybė byloja visai ką kitką ir byloja priešingai. Teko skaityti, kad JAValstijose iš mokslininkų, psichologų, politikų ir įvairių sričių specialistų yra sudaryta darbinė grupė, kuri turi parengti JAV vystymosi strategiją artimiausiems 50 metų. Toks noras yra suprantamas, tačiau įdomi detalė - tos strategijos esminė mintis, kad visa šalies vystymosi strategija turi būti grindžiama jau nebe mažiausia visuomenės lastele - šeima. Tuomet kuo? – nebuvo parašyta. Gal paprasčiausiai žmogumi. Tad ką - kokią šeimą? - mes norime sukurti ir įteisinti? Manyčiau, kad šeimos institucijos evoliucinis laikas eina į pabaigą, nežiūrint kaip krikščionybė ir bažnyčia šeimą piarintų ir propaguotų jos vertybes - realus gyvenimas koreguoja savaip, ir tik aklas arba neturintis proto to nepastebi. Kas tiko viduramžiais, jau nebetinka šiais laikais. Aišku, šeimos institucijos mirimo procesas lėtas, bet jis vyksta vis sparčiau. Todėl ar verta pūsti prieš vėją stengiantis suformuoti tik šeimą palaikančią valstybės politiką? Juk iš esmės gerb. R.Dagys “sudegė” nesuvokęs to dalyko ir paleidęs sparnuotą frazę, kuria apriori pasmerkė bambalius vaikus - idioto vertas išsireiškimas. Vėlesni pasiteisinimai jau nebepadėjo. Gamtoje yra įvairių šeimų (išskyrus žydrasias, rausvasias, mafijines Koza-nostros ir panašias šeimas) rūšių. Bičių, skruzdžių, liųtų, vilkų, gulbių, bezdžionių, įvairių augalų šeimos, bakterijų kolonijos - ir visos jos puikiai gyvena ir sugyvena. Kodėl nepasimokome? Kodėl nepasiaiškiname kokie tarpusavio ir lyčių sugyvenimo principai ten galioja? - paklauskit mokslininkų, biologų, gerb. Saliamono Paltanavičiaus - jis labai suprantamai ir paprastai išaiškins. Be abejo, pasakėlės arba Kristaus šeimos idealizavimas čia niekaip nepagelbės, tik dar labjau pablogins padėtį. Dabartiniu metu esamas šeimos modelis nors ir įvardinamas kaip tradicinis, yra proto sukurtas, todėl tam tikra prasme … neprotingas ir netradicinis, o primestas, pačioje savo esmėje. Štai jums ir atsakymas į komentaro pradžioje pateiktus neigiamus reiškinius, kurie tarpsta šeimoje ir kodėl taip gaunasi. Todėl valdžioje esantiems dar reikia gerai gerai pamastyti kokį šeimos modelį įteisinti ir propaguoti, nes einant keliu, apie kurį dažnai dabar kalbama, bus tuščias darbas, vėjais išmesti pinigai, jokios naudos nei mums, nei ateinančioms kartoms, kurioms, jei sugebės išlikti, šioje srityje bus palikta dar didesnė tuštuma ir nežinomybė.

  17.   tikras lietuvis rašo:

    Nebežino konserveriai kaip bešiknabirbiauti kosmopolitams.

  18.   Lemonize rašo:

    O dabar visi plojame katučių už tokias idėjas. Bet klausimas, ar nepamiršome vieno svarbaus momento? Vaikai patys sau aplinkos nesukuria. Gal išleisti reikia vaikų auklėjimo pradžiamokslį tėvams? Taigi, viskas prasideda nuo šeimos, kurioje vaikas auga ir gauna pradinį indėlį į suvokiamą gėrį ar blogį. Gal reikėtų pagalvoti apie tikslingą informacijos pateikimą, o ne uždraudimą? Man toks “neagitavimas” atrodo juokingas. Tiesa, sutinku, kad gal darželiuose ir nereikia pasakoti pasakų, kaip sutiko princas karalaitį, jie susituokė, įsivaikino vaikučių, laimingai ir gražiai gyveno. Bet gal nereikia nukrypti į lankas. Manau, kad mokykloje turi būti apie tai specialios pamokos, valandėlės, kad vaikai būtų supažindinti su “kas yra kas”. Lytiniai santykiai juk nėra gėdingas dalykas, bet informacija turi būti protingai pateikiama, o ne uždraudžiama. Tai gal reikia kontroliuoti, o ne uždrausti? Be to pritariu anksčiau išsakytoms nuomonėms, kad auga protingi žmonės, kai vienur kanalas informacijos nutrūksta, visada yra spragų kur galima praslysti. Tiesą sakant, labai norėčiau sužinoti, kokiu tikslu yra tai daroma? Nes tada man neaišku, kas formuojama/ kuriama tokiais draudimais, koks šeimos modelis kuriamas ar tai tiesiog idėjos numetimas pasikapstymui, o paskui bus žiūrima kas gavosi.

  19.   Laura rašo:

    Kiekvienam dalykui yra savas laikas ir vieta. Yra ir tam tikros ribos, kurių laikydamiesi suaugusieji turi atsakyti į tam tikrus vaiko klausimus apie intymius dalykus. Taciau gali buti zalingas bet koks vaiko specialus mokymas, net ir apie naturalius (vyro ir moters) santykius. Tai gali itakoti nepilnameciu ankstyvius lytinius santykius su visomis iš to kylančiomis pasekmemis.

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